Could Kazakhstan's security forces cope with the threat of real militants?

Спецназовец у входа в мечеть Алматы. Иллюстративное фото

The events last April in Almaty, when 11 commandos from the

This topic will be discussed on Radio Azattyk at a roundtable with the participation of: Oraz Nurdilda — Press Secretary and chief of the department of state language development, information, and international cooperation at the Interior Ministry; Amirbek Togusov — Major General and former vice-minister of defense; Arat Narmambetov — retired colonel of the KNB (Kazakhstan State Security).

Interviewed separately was former deputy chairman of the KNB and founder of Kazakhstan's commando units “Alpha” and “Arystan”, Boltat Ashikbayev, now deputy director of the company Kazatomprom. Due to his absence from Kazakhstan, he expressed his opinions in advance.

Roundtable moderator was Sultan-Khan Akkulyuly of Radio Azattyk.

“Sunkar” commando unit were killed trying to capture 3 extremists holed up in an apartment, as well as bombings in Aktobe and Astana, and continued fighting in the Aktobe region — what does this tell us? Are the law enforcement agencies of Kazakhstan, including commando units such as “Arlan”, “Sunkar” and the like up to such emergencies?

FOR PARADES AND WINDOW DRESSING

Moderator: Why have the armed forces of Kazakhstan, as represented by the Interior Ministry and its special units, for so long been unable to locate or eliminate resistance from the unknown armed group in the Aktobe region?

(Press Secretary) Nurdilda: After independence, starting in 1996, Kazakhstan established three special operations units. There is, firstly, the

As for the events in Almaty and Aktobe and ongoing operations there, I can say this: the criminals attacked so unexpectedly that our special operations unit could not to take any preventative measures to stop the crime. The criminals were hidden and firing from windows and other places, and they attacked so unexpectedly that our soldiers did not even have time to draw their weapons.

So I would like to say regarding this that we, perhaps, are not quite ready for just such events. Prior to this, we did not think that it could happen here, perhaps a terrorist attack, but some threat from outside. These were all criminal acts committed in peacetime. We lost so many members from our special operations unit. Now we are building on that experience and spend most of our time training in the event of such a large threat. But, I think, I cannot say that our training is low-level.

Moderator: Mr. Narmambetov, why did the government forces take such significant losses? Are such losses against an unknown armed resistance group normal?

(Retired KNB Colonel) Narmambetov: Firstly, all these special units – “Sunkar”, “Berkut”, “Arlan” — these are not military units, but special operations units. Shubarshi and Kenkiyak, these are not some Vietnamese villages and units like “Arlan” are not the U. S. Marines, so the number of burned huts and dead people or extremists does not measure their skill.

Дом после взрыва в дачном поселке Кызылжар на окраине Актобе. 30 июля 2011 года

I think all this reflects a lack of skill within these units. We are basically used to working at window dressing. When these special units are shown on TV, one can see that it is all fake and just for parades.

These special units should have a greater emphasis on operational work to prevent such an event, and approach targets surgically. I was involved in working on such things and I know the subject, so I speak on it. I was a part of another irregular group, “Alpha”, for 10 years, and in such cases they do not prolong things so that fighting goes on all day, and they do not approach the target until the last, crucial stage to capture it. It should have only taken seconds to go out and capture of these people without taking casualties.

(Former Vice Defense Minister) Togusov: Taking part in our discussion is an expert in state language and information, and he speaks about the relationship of the Interior Ministry and other law enforcement organs to special units designed to perform just such tasks. The people expect an explanation and hope that, in such dangerous situations, Interior Ministry special units are always ready to defend ordinary people. Unfortunately, we have not heard that today, so I do not even know what questions to ask this specialist.

How did such a thing happen in such a densely populated district of Almaty? Have they ever carried out such an operation before? If yes, then why is it so poorly done? Who was responsible? Who carried it out? Why did special units carrying the name “Spetsnaz” — units whose very purpose suggests that these are supposedly men that are highly prepared for just such situations — carry it out so ineptly, so stupidly?

Why was it that during the special operation in the Aktobe region that they did not use any non-lethal special measures that could have acted remotely on the offenders, such as electromagnetic radiation, acoustic waves of different frequencies, or new types of chemical weapons, especially on that blockaded building? Real experts do this elementarily. Why has the Interior Ministry not yet explained that there really are not any special operations units, or why they work so poorly? What should they have done?

They should have called on real Spetsnaz veterans who could have come and told them how to do it. It was an elementary operation that should have been carried out even by local police forces from the Aktobe region that have the same average level of preparedness.

The attitude of the Interior Ministry and the training of these special units shock me. I would like to know about the commanders who “put these people on the line”, were they sacked? They should be prosecuted for such a worthless operation, for the fact that people died. I absolutely do not understand the actions of these units, it was as if they were in some occupied territory, working according to some “take no prisoners, wipe them all out” basis. Why is this going on? I would like to hear this.

SOCIAL EXTREMISM

Moderator: Mr. Narmambetov, is it possible that terrorists are preparing suicide bombers for attacks in Kazakhstan, based of the case of the young man blowing himself up in the Aktobe regional KNB? Former Interior Minister Kairbek Suleimenov believes that this is possible. What do you think?

(Retired KNB Colonel) Narmambetov: I believe that it is possible. I have evaluated every event in recent times that had a religious, extremist characteristic. These are not isolated events. These are, shall we say, quantitative indicators that have been growing in recent years and now, sad to say, are moving to a new level. The fact that it started in Aktobe, well, it had to start somewhere. These tendencies, I think, exist in every region of our Kazakhstan.

Полицейское оцепление на месте взрыва в Актобе. 17 мая 2011 года

Moderator: Who are these people who have for a rather long time been fighting the Interior Ministry forces? Are they bandits, a religious extremist group, or a criminal gang? How are they are armed, and how are Interior Ministry units equipped?

(Press Secretary) Nurdilda: All the criminals in Kenkiyak in the Aktobe region hid behind religion, behind God, but they stole oil by the ton and caused widespread panic among the populace. All of them were members of a criminal organization. I can rightly declare them guilty of committing crimes. This case is currently under criminal investigation and being overseen by the Prosecutor General himself. Whenever we have information, we try to accurately and objectively convey it to the public.

The whole criminal gang was armed with hunting weapons and guns for shooting rubber bullets. We are checking these out. We are finding out where these guns were registered. The training of our special units, I can say, is at a high level. Our fighters have all necessary weapons at their disposal.

(Former Vice Defense Minister) Togusov: We already knew that these poor people were armed with hunting rifles and rubber bullets. I recently read a report by the deputy interior minister of Russia, and he writes that Russian special operations units conducted 25,000 operations in six months, disarming and arresting 160 armed groups, more than 500 armed criminals. At the same time they lost only 15 men and had 25 wounded. We had two operations and took losses as if there had been 25 thousand. This speaks of the catastrophic situation of our commandos.

We need serious, crucial action at the governmental level to deal with this problem. Nurdilda said that allegedly they did not have time to grab for their guns. Why not equip them with that modern Czech pistol that works according to the principle of “point and shoot?” There are now special Israeli rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons that shoot around corners. Do our special units have any such weapons? Now explain about shrapnel and so on. There is, after all, special protective clothing for such operations. What are we talking about here?

Now, as to what kind of people we are dealing with, for some reason in all cases they cubby hole them into religious extremism. Where is this religious extremism coming from? Today, I think in Kazakhstan what is very relevant is social extremism. What is extremism? It is when a person holds extreme views, and favors extreme measures. These people are desperate, especially in Kenkiyak where there is high unemployment and the local executive bodies have a callous attitude towards solving social problems, as well as corruption, theft, and lawlessness by the police. That is why there is this conflict. These are the main reasons. Today the basis of these phenomena is not religious extremism, but social.

Recently on your Radio Azattyk web page Tolganay Umbetalieva wrote that there are in the West (of Kazakhstan) people willing to change the given political situation by shedding blood if necessary. The first manifestations were the bombing of the KNB building in Aktobe and the events in Astana (sic – Almaty) and Kenkiyak and several other places. I see that it is increasing because the protest environment, the social issues are not being solved today.

There was no need to send special operations units into the Aktobe region. Instead they should have sent Madame Abdykalikova, our Minister of Labor and Social Security. The Akim (regional governor) before anything else should have gone there along with workers from the departments of employment and social programs, and then later they should have sent prosecutors and investigators to get to the bottom of things. Recurrences of this have yet to be eliminated.

I would not be surprised if in six months or a year there will once again be a social explosion. Suicide bombers in such a situation… I will say once again that if a person is in a mess and cannot solve their problem, if he goes to the city administration or other structures, but is refused, if the courts only pass judgments based on bribes, then what has he left? To blow himself up, to throw himself from the upper story or perform other extremist, so to speak, methods of struggle, to protect his friends and relatives. That is the root.

The state must therefore turn its face to solving primarily social issues and problems, to creating basic living conditions for its citizens, to put up a strong barrier to corruption, to put the Akimats (governorates) to right. Now where is an ordinary person to go, if not to a mosque or a church? He has nowhere to go! Those who are interested (in extremism), of course, will greet him kindly and then set him up with extremist measures.

We have now entered an active phase of social extremism, and the events that have been taking place in Arab countries, if we do not make some changes, will come to us.

THEY FOUGHT ELDERS AND PREGNANT WOMEN

Moderator: Are the law enforcement agencies of Kazakhstan and its special anti-terrorist units prepared in case of infiltration from some terrorist or extremist group from outside the country? Bolat Ashikbayev, who spearheaded the creation of the “Alpha” and “Arystan” units, for example, is confident that Kazakhstan and its anti-terrorist forces are in a position to repel an attack from the outside.

(Former deputy chairman of the KNB) Ashikbayev: Each unit must have its own task. “Alpha” and “Arystan” have an anti-terror task. I can say without boasting that they can safely repel gangs and terrorist groups. This is no problem. The main thing is to work out arrangements and, of course, special training — daily special training. We had about 14 types of special combat training. Think of how many that is. “Sunkar” probably does not do this. I do not know what they have in “Arlan”.

(Former Vice Defense Minister) Togusov: What is happening now speaks the opposite. In Kenkiyak they could not get people to surrender normally or even negotiate. On the other hand, perhaps there are a lot of corrupt moments when the police do not want anyone giving testimony and describing how they really live, how they are being robbed and why they decided to destroy.

Похороны погибшего бойца спецназа Руслана Жолдыбаева. Актобе, 04 июля 2011 года

Today, evidence shows the opposite. For example, in 2008–2010 in the Alatau district in Almaty there was this so-called mobile unit made up of workers from the Alatau Akimat, the directorate of countryside relations, and the police. Then they started bringing in special operations units. These units destroyed without warrants the homes of more than 1,200 ordinary citizens. They handcuffed people and beat them up, they fought, so to speak, against grandmothers and grandfathers and pregnant women.

None of them is ready when they go up against real men after such “training”. This situation, apparently, goes on in other places as well. Where was the need to send anti-terror special units against Altynbek Sarsenbayev? This is where a lot of training gets wasted. Gradually it becomes degraded.

We need to fundamentally redefine the approach to the use of weapons, training, equipment, and the acquisition and use of new technologies in special operations. The Security Council, the government, and the law enforcement agencies urgently need to address this. Otherwise such lapses and such incompetent and shameful special unit operations will go on.

(Retired KNB Colonel) Narmambetov: Narmambetov: I think that they are not fully prepared if such a course of events continues. Why? Because those village boys with their hunting rifles held them off for days, meanwhile foreign terrorist centers are preparing masters of a higher caliber. Therefore, I think against such a background we do not look so good. I would like to emphasize the following: we have too many anti-terrorist groups scattered among different departments — there is “Sunkar”, “Arlan”, “Berkut”, and so on. I think you need to create a single anti-terrorist center based on the KNB’s “Arystan”. Interior Ministry units could be auxiliary forces around “Arystan”. Only then will they be able to increase their chances.

The leadership needs to change the criteria for such operations: if there are casualties among the terrorists, then fine, but when there are losses of our own people and innocent civilians, then it is necessary to evaluate it negatively, otherwise it will be like in Beslan when they were freeing the schoolchildren. Russia’ political leadership evaluated the special operation as very high, even though several hundred students were killed in the assault. I still cannot get it into my head how they could have evaluated it positively.

Moderator: Distinguished guests on Radio Azattyk, this completes our roundtable. Thank you for participating in the discussion. Goodbye.

On ‘Radio Azattyk’

http://rus.azattyq.org/content/anti_terrorist_operations_kazakhstan/24288109.html

“Sunkar” commando unit directly under the Interior Ministry, and then there are “Berkut” and “Arlan” under regional departments of the Interior Ministry. I think that the training of special operations units in Kazakhstan is stable and at a high-level, since training goes on daily.

Be first to comment this article

Write Comment
Please keep the topic of messages relevant to the subject of the article. Personal verbal attacks will be deleted. Please don't use comments to plug your web site. Such material will be removed. Just ensure to *Refresh* your browser for a new security code to be displayed prior to clicking on the 'Send' button. Keep in mind that the above process only applies if you simply entered the wrong security code.
Name:
E-mail
Homepage
Title:
Comment:
Code:*
	I wish to be contacted by email regarding additional comments

Powered by AkoComment Tweaked Special Edition v.1.4.6
AkoComment © Copyright 2004 by Arthur Konze — www.mamboportal.com
All right reserved