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similar
- Svetlana Gubareva's description
- Impotence after the acts of terror
- Заявление Светланы Губаревой в Генеральную прокуратуру Республики Казахстан
- A live report from the assault on TC
- A journalist, who was an eyewitness to the events, talks
- Two gases were used
- Participants in the assault tell their story
- ‘Nord-Ost’: unknown details
| Ustinovskaya, Yekaterina |
| Уже 22 года... |
| 24/10/24 13:38 more... |
| author Аноним |
| Kurbatova, Christina |
|
Детки Милые, хорошие наши детки!!! Так просто не должно быть, это больно, это нечестно, это ужасно. |
| 30/06/24 01:30 more... |
| author Ольга |
| Grishin, Alexey |
|
Памяти Алексея Дмитриевича Гришина Светлая память прекрасному человеку! Мы работали в ГМПС, тогда он был молодым начальником отдела металлов, подающим боль... |
| 14/11/23 18:27 more... |
| author Бондарева Юлия |
| Panteleev, Denis |
| Вот уже и 21 год , а будто как вчера !!!! |
| 26/10/23 12:11 more... |
| author Ирина |
| Ustinovskaya, Yekaterina |
| Помним. |
| 24/10/23 17:44 more... |
| author Аноним |
| “By all accounts, the assault was a success” |
| Written by Ольга Алленова | |||||||||
| Понедельник, 22 Октябрь 2007 | |||||||||
 On October 23rd, 2002, terrorists seized the theatrical center on Dubrovka, where the musical — Five years ago you were one of the key figures during the events at the theatrical center. How do you view the special operation today? Did the authorities do everything possible to save the people? That I was a key figure is not quite correct. I was authorized to be in contact with the media. I was, as your fellow writers put it, a talking head, and I have asked myself the question that you asked me many times. Was everything possible done? Today I am convinced that all measures, which could have been taken to ensure negotiations to free the people, were adopted. By the way, negotiations were constantly being held, but the terrorists changed the conditions, and put forward new ones that were not feasible. The assault was launched only after the terrorists started shooting hostages. If you recall the testimony of one of the hostages, he was just talking about this very thing. — That the assault would not have taken place, had it not for these murders? The assault took place because there were deaths, because there was a real threat to the lives of the hostages. By all accounts, according to intelligence officials, parliamentarians and other experts, including foreign ones with whom I have spoken, the assault was successful. So, on what basis are we talking about this? We neutralized the terrorists, under extremely difficult conditions, and prevented an explosion. You remember the auditorium? There were virtually no columns or beams supporting the ceiling. Had the terrorists set off their IEDs, the roof would have instantly collapsed, burying the hostages. On this basis the operational headquarters decided exactly how to carry out the special operation. — Do you consider the application of gas to be reasonable? Neither the rescuers on site, nor the doctors in the hospitals — who had no antidote — were ready for this! I understand your indignation. It was a difficult decision, but it was the optimal one, because the gas immediately knocked out the terrorists and prevented them from triggering their explosive devices. There was no other way to avoid this. The gas, however, paralyzed the hostages as well. Here you are talking about antidotes. I am not a doctor, but I certainly know that, in this situation, what the hostages needed first of all was fresh air. Remove the casualties to the street, lay them on their backs, and, if the tongue lolls back, hold it up so that they do not suffocate. This is even in school first aid programs. — Simply fresh air and nothing else, no antidotes, despite the fact that the gas was unusual, and specially designed for such a purpose? Yes, just fresh air, but working against us were the banal factors of time and place. If you recall, the entrances to the theater center were all packed full of privately owned vehicles, of those who went to the concert. There was a narrow roadway, but it was impossible for several rescue brigades the go there simultaneously. Two ambulances could not drive up at the same time, so when the ambulances drove up to the building one at a time, they were loaded up as full as possible with people in a state of unconsciousness. If the victim was in a sitting position, lack of oxygen sets in, but the doctors knew that they had to get everyone to the hospitals quickly, because time was working against them. — So, had there been enough ambulances, and had the hostages been placed inside these on stretchers, more people would have been saved? Yes, of course. Right there next to the theatrical center was a hospital for war veterans, and those who were brought to that hospital survived because there was enough time to perform the necessary resuscitation. — But why it was impossible to remove the vehicles and clear the area, since it was a matter of the life and death for hundreds of people? Because at the time we had laws that did not allow us to do that, and no one was ready for such a scenario. Unfortunately, a lot had to be learned during this special operation. — Back then the authorities demonstrated that they did not negotiate with terrorists. This was the time when this position was first stated. It was again manifested in Beslan, and there are still many questions about whether or not it would have been possible to save people had talks been held with the terrorists. The fact that one cannot agree with terrorists is not something that we came up with. This is international practice, but we never refused the negotiating process. There are negotiations with terrorists up until a certain time, based on the appropriateness, and then decisions are made based on the threat to the lives of the hostages. During — But in Beslan there were no negotiations at all. You are about to draw an analogy between the Let us go back to — Are you saying that had the NAC existed back then, things would have been different? Under the new law, in the first few minutes of a terror act, the head of the operational headquarters defines the area of the counter-terrorist operation (CTO). Within that territory, he can remove vehicles and evacuate individuals that are preventing movement. This area is limited, and only specialists are allowed within. So, a situation like we had in Beslan, where we had all these people, relatives, and journalists, running around the school and endangering themselves and others, this will not happen again. Before the assault on — But during the storming of the school in Beslan they used heavy equipment, even though law did not yet spell it out. In Beslan there is an investigation into the use of weapons and equipment, and it will answer every question. — In Beslan people were outraged that tanks fired upon the school. Now, it turns out that tanks will be used all the time, but who will guarantee that they will not start shooting when there are hostages in the building? Heavy equipment will only be used if needed. This is just an arsenal that can be used, but that does not mean that it will necessarily be put to use. The chief of the operational headquarters will decide based of feasibility, as well as from the fact that he is responsible for the outcome of the operation and for people's lives. Who will deliver an order without thinking a hundred times about the consequences, when everyone knows who is responsible for the operation? You see, whoever takes responsibility for managing the headquarters should get every opportunity to do the job well. This is a person who is publicly responsible for everything. Whoever is responsible should be given a complete toolkit, and we gave it to him. — According to this law, all journalists can be removed from the CTO zone, and this means that no one at all will know what happened there. Why do so categorically? The chief of the headquarters may allow the press to be present in his area, but he can also prohibit it. He will do it based on several factors, primarily safety. — Judging from my experience, in our country, security officials always find it easier to prohibit, than permit. Well, you are now reasoning as a journalist. I disagree. People cannot be rescued without certain violations of rights and freedoms. — I was in Beslan back then, and I remember that the militias, which your law would have removed from the CTO, almost saved more people than the professionals. After all, there were not enough vehicles, stretchers, and people. You only take fragments of the event. Now, if at — Who is to blame for the fact that, two years after It is very difficult for me to comment on the events in Beslan. No matter what now I might say, the victims will perceive it painfully. I am very sorry for these people, but I do not presume to judge who is to blame. Imagine how many thousands of schools there are in Russia. How can one protect any of them from a group of terrorists that are moving through Russian in cars, carrying the passports of Russian citizens? Remember how everything was back then. Even during Basayev’s campaign in Budennovsk, it was clear how very difficult it is find people who are going to commit such a crime. It is a different situation today, and today we have learned a lot. — But many believe that the intelligence agencies work very badly, especially in the Caucasus. If a group of Beslan militants spent a month getting ready near Psedaha, and the local populace most certainly would know about this, why did the security services not know about it? No, I do not agree with you, you are deeply mistaken. When they attacked Nazran, recall how many people were killed there, how many relatives of the people there now. Do you think people would have let it happen, had they known it was coming? — So, We can impute those who did not have enough operational intelligence, but I dare not judge them. I know in real life those who now work in these structures, and how much they get and what demands are placed on them. At the cemetery in Beslan, near the graves of the hostages, there is a monument to the security service commandos who lost their lives saving people. These are heroes. By the way, in order to help the security services, the law against terrorism allows monitoring of all telephone and other conversations, and control of entire broadcast wavelength. This is for prevention and mitigation of consequences. — Based on all this, I conclude that during the assault in Beslan it was a complete mess and no one was responsible for anything, just because we did not have a law on the struggle against terrorism? I was not in Beslan. You were, so you can make a better assessment than I. I only know that the situation was very complicated, and I can understand that people, who have been under this stress for three years already, what their assessments might be. I was with the ‘Mothers of Beslan’ committee on the third anniversary, and they reminded me of what I said during — Even if this was the only way to save several hundred people? Well, we have certainly gotten sidetracked. Do you have certain scales that you can use to weigh the life of one man against the lives of several? I do not. Are you sure that this person will not be killed and the others will really be released? With whom are we dealing? With the people who are doing the killing! So, let us hand me over to them, or you. This is not a legal approach, do you understand? As a matter of fact, the State should protect all its citizens, whether the president or an ordinary citizen. How can the State grab the president of a republic and hand him over to be shot? Views: 7300 |
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